Transcribed by Nan
[Symbols in Revelation]
Bob 0:02
Did McLuhan know that words create?
iON 0:06
Yes. And said those words.
Bob 0:09
He knew that. Then he wrote about these non-mouth media, –
iON 0:15
Right.
Bob 0:15
—talked about how they changed language.
iON 0:18
He didn’t say they changed words. He said they changed language. Language doesn’t have anything to do with creation. Words have everything to do with creation. Language is the setup so you can have a common printing press expression of marvelous creating words. Those are organized in laundry baskets called language. If you want to ask about dialects, you can ask about that. Dialects are expressions, personal expressions, within a caliber of a language that’s already been sorted. So, you have English, you have King’s English, you have broken English, you’ve got southern English. You see? You got different types that sets up even a degree of individuality within the words, confined within a language, confined within a culture.
Bob 1:22
If you speak dialect, are you creating?
iON 1:25
You are. Dialect is your version of words.
Bob 1:29
So, you’re saying there’s a difference between language and words.
iON 1:33
Yes, from Marshall’s [indistinct].
Bob 1:35
Language is printing press and movies. The thing that changes.
iON 1:39
Language just organizes so everybody gets the same conversation. But Marshall said even that’s silly because when you organize everybody into the same furrow of understanding language, then those understandings turn into 50,000 definitions for every word. And now look at there, you can’t even print a dictionary anymore because they’re out of date for the time they get printed, because they have five different definitions of “be.”
Bob 2:15
He pointed out that printed uniform languages will be scrambled by the new electric languages, but words –
iON 2:22
It is, it is.
Bob 2:23
—[inaudible] the content, and man would be words.
iON 2:25
That’s how man was created. But that’s what they said in Genesis: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God, and God was with the Word.
Bob 2:35
So, the book of Revelation shows the development of languages, which would be maybe an aspect of the beast around the throne.
iON 2:43
And the conversion of those languages back into the word.
Bob 2:48
What are the elders representing?
iON 2:51
The elders, twenty and four elders, represent the flow of an individual human creator coming back into their place of power. The 24 is every degree of applied, less-thanness standing as the Ascended elder as representation of you in your place of power.
Bob 3:19
So, the elders are cultural representations of someone in their power.
iON 3:24
Yes. So when you get on your throne and you have 24 elders around you, you’ll look over and go, “Oh yeah, hello elder. Yep, you’re Marshall McLuhan. Yep, you’re an elder. You’re Marshall McLuhan.”
Bob 3:39
Right.
iON 3:39
“Oh yeah, look at there. Look at there. There’s Walter. Hey, Walter Bowart.”
Bob 3:45
And then there’ll be Frank Zappa. All the holy offices.
iON 3:48
And those offices for you are just stages that you went through that were significant, but really didn’t get you anywhere.
Bob 3:56
That’s exactly what I meant by saying there are archetypes of the outer world, images of charisma that you might have identified with, but when you’re truly in your throne, they’re not important.
iON 4:07
Very good.
Bob 4:08
Okay.
iON 4:08
They are representations in your place of power because that’ll be the confines of the embracing. Once you get to that place, you can really start discussing Marshall McLuhan then.
Bob 4:19
Which we’re doing right now.
iON 4:21
Well, imagine that.
Bob 4:22
So what would the beasts be archetypes of?
iON 4:26
Done this already. Remember what they have? Different faces. A face of a lion, face of a man. The different faces, those are contrasts within the world without your place of power that you give significance regarding.
Bob 4:42
Ah, that’s what I said, they’re environments of — it’s almost like the heavenly realms, environments of toil and struggle in the Outer Kingdom.
iON 4:51
Exactly, but there ain’t no devil involved. These are angels that created these beasts.
Bob 4:57
Angels created them.
iON 4:58
That’s what John says, Bob. You act like you never heard it before.
Bob 5:02
Well, no, I realized talking to Brian that I would have to actually go back and listen to these tapes because I was so involved…
iON 5:08
He’s only done it about 20 times. He is in the truck a bit.
Bob 5:11
He’s listened to them two or three times, yeah, and he still doesn’t know much. He hasn’t figured it out. But I was thinking that I might have to listen to them again to find out what was really said, ’cause I was too engaged in making them.
iON 5:25
That is exactly right. But now for you, Bob, it works well because you, you’re very, very together in your questioning.
Bob 5:34
Right. I know what I don’t know.
iON 5:35
You don’t remember, you don’t — yeah, you know what you don’t know. You don’t have a clue what the answer was, but you know every single question that’s been broached.
Bob 5:44
But I realized I never got to determine what any of those things were ’cause I was learning as we went through the chapters and unfolded.
iON 5:50
First time, yes.
Bob 5:52
But I did have an intuition that — now, I may be wrong in calling them archetypes, the Outer Kingdom.
iON 5:57
It’s okay, ’cause you don’t mean anything by it. It’s alright.
Bob 6:00
I mean something within the iON world that those things are the environment that’s given to you, or you allowed to be created by default, outside of yourself. Because when you get to the throne and Ultimate Creator, you create everything.
iON 6:17
You do already anyway.
Bob 6:18
But you become aware of it, and then it’s up to you what to create.
iON 6:21
Ahhh. So now the only difference between an Ascending and Ascended is awareness.
Bob 6:21
I don’t know if that’s the — maybe. You know, –
iON 6:24
Well, what do you mean maybe?
Bob 6:32
—if we pick that word, there’s a lot of argument of what the hell that means. You just have to put it out, and then people argue, and they don’t get it. Like, we did that on Cash Flow. We argued about consciousness. Remember several shows ago when everybody had all kinds of different email suggestions about what it was? It’s that “play.” I don’t try to find out which word it is, I just notice everybody thinks their word is where it’s at. And to the degree they notice other words and coming from different people, that’s the important point, is watching how everybody thinks their word is it.
iON 7:07
But their word is it. Now, it’s not about language, this is about words.
Bob 7:12
Right. So, you got the elders represent states of our psychological wisdom or beings.
iON 7:19
Okay, that’s not too terrible bad, but clean it up a little bit. States of an individual concept or precept that humans in their place of less-than, not in their place of power, gave great importance regarding.
Bob 7:36
The elders. Okay, I get that. The beasts represent what we literally think of beasts, a bit of a contrast to us. Right?
iON 7:43
No, the beast is what you judge how you’re doing in correlation to the four representations of the beast.
Bob 7:51
Is that judging through contrast?
iON 7:53
Well, Bob, that’s what you’re doing in creation is judging contrast.
Bob 7:59
I asked you about the elders. What does the beast represent?
iON 8:01
It’s all those aspects in the human condition. One had the face of a lion. One had a face of a beast, of a bear, or….
Bob 8:11
They’d be environments.
iON 8:13
They aren’t so much the environment, it’s how you engage. One had the face of a man. How you engage with other human beings can be a beast.
Bob 8:23
That sounds like Outer Kingdom cultural rules.
iON 8:26
It is Outer Kingdom until you bring them into your Middle Kingdom, which is what the angel was telling John. If it works in the Outer Kingdom until you bring them into your Middle Kingdom, and then they’ll become a deal.
Bob 8:40
Then they don’t work.
iON 8:42
Well, they don’t apply.
Bob 8:44
When you bring things in your Middle Kingdom, they don’t apply. They just become your now? Or that’s odd.
iON 8:49
As you know it. What do you mean it’s odd?
Bob 8:52
Okay, bilking is when you know it.
iON 8:54
Yeah.
Bob 8:55
They’re not a projection. They’re not something to be looking at.
iON 8:58
Yeah, they’re not something to wonder regarding.
Bob 9:00
Right. So, elders, and beasts and lamps. What would the lampshades represent?
iON 9:05
Lampstands. They’re not lampshades. [laughs] That sounded cheeky, but you really meant shades, because the light from the lampstands many times humans try to shade to make them not such a strong light.
Bob 9:26
So what is the lampstand? Is it just the light on a stand?
iON 9:27
It’s a candlestick, a bunch of candlesticks on a stand.
Bob 9:27
So when they talk about the seven candlesticks, they’re talking about the lampstands.
iON 9:33
That’s right, Bob.
Bob 9:36
So they look like candles?
iON 9:38
Groupings of candles, yeah.
Bob 9:40
We know them as candlesticks, not lampstands. These are the seven candlesticks.
iON 9:44
Well, but candlesticks you sit on a table. These would sit on a floor and give you light, voluminous amounts of light.
Bob 9:50
And each — there’s seven of them?
iON 9:52
Yes.
Bob 9:53
And each one has more than one candle, per se?
iON 9:56
Yes, every dynamic of those lampstands talked about the multifacets of each stand, Bob.
Bob 10:02
So what do they represent?
iON 10:05
Bob, we went through that.
Bob 10:06
I know, I don’t remember. Just, just asking again. We’re running it up the flagpole again. You might say something different.
iON 10:06
Well, we’re not gonna say something different unless you want to redo…
Bob 10:10
No, no, no, I just want to know. Like you told me about the elders, you told me about the bears. I finally got focused enough to ask what they are. What do the lampstands represent?
iON 10:26
The different degrees of the layers of heaven that you allow your light to so shine regarding.
Bob 10:35
Okay, so, as opposed to the beast, which is another kind of different degrees of, I don’t know — environment? I mean, you gave me a definition, but I don’t know what it is.
iON 10:45
Then go back and relisten to the sessions where you asked the questions.
Bob 10:48
No, no, no.
iON 10:48
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bob 10:49
I’m trying, I’m trying to find out what you did just say. Just even what you did say, what does it mean. I know people don’t get it. They’re always, never getting it.
iON 10:49
Then, therefore if they’re not gonna get it –
Bob 10:51
Not that it’s bad, they created it. They don’t get it.
iON 10:53
… why are you gonna get it now?
Bob 11:04
Well, I make the effort, but marvel on how we don’t get it.
iON 11:07
By not listening the first time.
Bob 11:09
No, I do listen. I don’t think we agreed. I mean, I have your words that we try to figure what your words refer to. I definitely got the elders are psychological archetypes; the beasts are sociological. They’re environments. They’re more — tend to environments more than wise individuals you might have, which is the elders. Yeah, the beasts represent environments that you interact with.
iON 11:32
That you have to gauge in regarding.
Bob 11:34
On my Chart I’ve got the list of psychological states. That’s the elders; same meaning, psychological states of wisdom. And then there’s the more environmental, social society statements. That’d be beasts, and society is a beast. You don’t have to engage with it. If you engage with it, you get roughed up a lot by it.
iON 11:52
Isn’t it fun though that you have the twenty and four elders and the beast around the same altar?
Bob 11:58
They are aspects of what make up a person.
iON 12:00
Very good. Those relegations are [inaudible] appropriately.
Bob 12:04
So that the candles would be representing your relationship to other than this world conditions: spiritual states.
iON 12:14
Multi-world conditions.
Bob 12:15
Multi-world. See, I don’t think it’s ever been said before.
iON 12:18
Yes, it has.
Bob 12:18
Maybe said, but nobody’s pinned it down to be able to say it like — you know, if Bob gets it, we got it. I can actually say I would disagree with my words, but I can say the elders represent psychological states of social achievement. The beasts represent social conditions like, which party is in power, so to speak. You know, which collective, collective party is power. And then there’s the other world. Other world is the lampshades, the lamp sticks, [laughs] the candlesticks. Now, was there anything else around the throne? That was it, wasn’t it?
iON 12:49
Yeah.
Bob 12:50
Now that’s really clear.
iON 12:55
Good.
Bob 12:56
And no one’s ever figured that out, have they?
iON 12:58
We have.
Bob 13:00
Well, the people who Ascended, they don’t need to figure this out; it’s not an issue.
iON 13:04
And it doesn’t apply.
Bob 13:05
You say “we,” yeah, you guys. Well, you wrote this. You created this. I’d say that iON wrote the Bible. I mean by that, that the state of inspiration the writers were in was in contact with a super-knowing like iON.
iON 13:18
It was their NonPhysical. Period.
Bob 13:21
Which iON represents. So we agree that this were archetypes of the elders. You could find wise people in other worlds. You could find elders in other worlds.
iON 13:33
We’re not talkin’ about elders in other worlds; we’re talkin’ about elders around the throne when you come into your place of…
Bob 13:40
Right, but I’m trying to compare. The candlesticks represent other worlds around the throne.
iON 13:47
Not necessarily. No, it does not. Who said that?
Bob 13:50
You were saying the lampstands represent multiple worlds.
iON 13:54
No, we didn’t. We said lampstands represent the light that shines through your world in your place on the throne, Ascended. And if you’ll read what the different lampstands were representing, it told you explicitly, detail by detail, what those lights were.
Bob 14:12
So all three artifacts are part of this world.
iON 14:30
Yeah.
Bob 14:19
So, if we’ve got the society cultural machines as the beast, and then the psychological charisma images the elders, what in this world of the — how you shine your light? How you…
iON 14:32
Bob, each individual lampstand represents a different light shining a different way. They told what those lights represented.
Bob 14:40
Right.
iON 14:40
Or exposed or enlightened.
Bob 14:41
Wouldn’t that be a Trinity, a physical mind?
iON 14:46
That’s what we said.
Bob 14:46
The elders would be labyrinth of the mind, the beast will be physical, and the lamps….
iON 14:49
No, we didn’t go through all that. No, no.
Bob 14:54
Why wouldn’t that apply?
iON 14:55
Because it’s not appropriate to comply in the, in the merging together. You’re not trying to merge the lampstands, the beast, and the elders in your kingdom.
Bob 15:08
Okay. These represent external — for the later Ascended person — irrelevant images.
iON 15:15
Exactly. But they’re important as you’re in your place of becoming.
Bob 15:21
As you form your rules and overlay new rules, you have images.
iON 15:23
That’s right. And that’s why that’s in the first book of the Bible of the Revelation. That’s right.
Bob 15:30
Images are conduits.
iON 15:32
That’s what you used to get yourself all hooked up with yourself.
Bob 15:36
The first three chapters have these laid out, right?
iON 15:39
Yes.
Bob 15:40
Yeah. All the religions came from the Emerald Tablets, the same dynamic were [inaudible] up.
iON 15:46
Yes.
Bob 15:47
But what was interesting about the West, it was gonna become this weird, strange empire to dominate the world for a couple thousand…
iON 15:47
And it did. And it did.
Bob 15:56
And that is what interested John. That involves what we call media, the printing press and subsequent environments that led to America being this unique place. That was the difference. Did McLuhan become aware of that factor of it?
iON 15:56
He did, and he was onto something. He just didn’t know what he was onto because of his limited vocabulary.
Bob 16:17
What I’m thinking is what he didn’t get to, but he certainly was getting close because he just didn’t have the time, or he didn’t have the input from iON to get that extra detachment, or whatever you wanna call it.
iON 16:31
Yeah, ’cause even the success that he got was a crapshoot to him.
Bob 16:35
See, that’s where the McLuhan part, to me, is really important about the Revelation. You seem to be agreeing that the reason John and Nostradamus did their thing is that there was something different in history which would paradoxically imprison everybody and allow everybody to get to the point of making the choice. That that was the good news was to wrap up the world into a prison through electronic media, and then the choice would be there. Is that, would you say that’s part of what the meaning of the Apocalypse or Armageddon?
iON 17:07
Well, sort of, yeah. Okay.
Bob 17:10
Well, it comes to this point: words create. I used to call that the private citadel of consciousness. I said media don’t affect the private citadel of consciousness. In your terms, that is better defined as media don’t affect words. They do affect the environments of previous media languages, –
iON 17:28
Certainly.
Bob 17:28
—but not the power of words.
iON 17:32
Good, good, good, good, good.
Bob 17:34
See, the Emerald Tablets or any early religions told the truth about the power of your words, if the teachers taught that. That’s all they could teach. That’s the only truth there is, the power of your words. But there was this collective accumulation through the manuscript and in the printing press, newspaper and television and all that dynamic. That’s what John saw that said somethin’ different is comin’ down the pike; I can see it. That is what they were intrigued by?
iON 18:08
It was indeed.
Bob 18:10
And that’s what McLuhan half stumbled on. Did Joyce stumble on that, ’cause he’s got a lot of Bible stuff mixed in there.
iON 18:16
Well, but his world was all engaged in the dogma of the moment, which is what he used in the storyline. Otherwise, no one would have embraced the “Wake” anyway.
Bob 18:28
He actually was getting mixed up about how words create, but the media effects were confusing him.
iON 18:34
Of course.
Bob 18:36
Then McLuhan teased them apart. He says, okay, I’ll write about media as languages, but it’s not the “word” thing, the “word” truth; keep that secret to myself. And Joyce, he got mixed up in an earlier phase. And then in this situation with iON, which is the completing point, — they didn’t have access to iON, which I always say I cheated. I had access to NonPhysical. — that does help us right at this point to clarify this.
iON 19:02
Of course.
Bob 19:02
I say to people that iON has come around and acknowledges McLuhan more, but he wouldn’t in the first six, eight months because we had to get iON’s point before we could drop back to the secondary point of languages and McLuhan’s significance in that part of our knowledge.
iON 19:03
Well, okay, that’s fine.
Bob 19:22
Yeah. So, iON, when you can play with humans, you can play with words, but you note that our words, our creative power of words, we refer to media images; you know, Lady Gaga. We refer to the languages. We talk about the languages on Cash Flow with the proviso that your words, personally for you, — nothing to do with the language issues of media dynamics — you’re trying to also say you create your own reality, and that’s your more basic power. That’s your real power is what you do with your words.
iON 19:57
Good.
Bob 19:59
McLuhan said that Beelzebub, his crime was, his sin was he mixed up language with his mind.
iON 20:07
Mm-hm.
Bob 20:07
So the mind would be the word-creating thing, symbolically, and language would be public things. You find that people get mixed up with public stuff and concerned about it, try to think about it, and then iON says, no, no, don’t even think about it. I heard one of these people on Tailgate saying, you know, I don’t watch the news anymore. And we discussed it earlier, and they don’t recognize the phatic communion, but they want to make power of themselves, but they’re not sure what words to use ’cause they have it mixed up with media languages which they have been conditioned by.
iON 20:40
And that’s the difference between power and authority.
Bob 20:43
So, language is authority, in a sense; it’s the authority world. Words are the world of power.
iON 20:52
Good.
Bob 20:53
And authority can be impactful to impact you, not just because it’s somebody yelling at you, wears a gun. Just engaging with automobiles and television, those media dynamics are other kinds of authority, aren’t they?
iON 21:10
They would be.
Bob 21:12
Well, there is a good development in that. I can work with that.
